tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post7595752991788657441..comments2023-06-15T05:02:07.807-05:00Comments on Java Jesus: scotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06407035513346395310noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post-61568428197003816232009-01-06T14:22:00.000-06:002009-01-06T14:22:00.000-06:00Wow, that was scathing. One of the dangers of bein...Wow, that was scathing. One of the dangers of being Big-Time like Driscoll is little guys like Joe b yapping at your heels. <BR/><BR/>Gosh, NObody yaps at <I>my heels</I>...Joe Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15385756442506439825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post-29056689485221734792008-12-31T15:59:00.000-06:002008-12-31T15:59:00.000-06:00I begin by agreeing with FiberHead that both ends ...I begin by agreeing with FiberHead that both ends of the methodological spectrum fall in the same hole: they are focused on methodology (even the anti-methodology crowd.)<BR/><BR/>But I continue by saying that the esteemed Driscoll's remarks fall smack dab in that hole, and they are flawed from top to bottom. It's what happens when you get in defense mode. <BR/><BR/>This very smart man finds some kinship between the Acts 2 phenomena and an attractional megachurch? What a nutty idea. Wind, fire, and one sermon, one day, and 3000 decisions resembles a megachurch? How? The only commonality is a large number of people. "Continuing daily in the temple" resembles modern church services? Doesn't Zondervan have editors?<BR/><BR/>His closing sentence manages to be clever without being smart. Especially addressed to the perspective of Hirsch & Frost, it's plain ignorant. <BR/><BR/>Driscoll should read more and write less. But he's still a super-cool cat. I like him.Joe Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15385756442506439825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post-38673183694517457222008-12-28T10:02:00.000-06:002008-12-28T10:02:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.fiber_techhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09811603475854106273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post-89702226323602321932008-12-20T17:54:00.000-06:002008-12-20T17:54:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.fiber_techhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09811603475854106273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post-84480459230712207182008-12-18T06:00:00.000-06:002008-12-18T06:00:00.000-06:00Re:ScottI think the answer to how we teach people ...Re:Scott<BR/><BR/>I think the answer to how we teach people in seminaries and ministry schools should follow after a new (old) way of spiritual formation and discipleship. We need to do away with the notion that you can line people up in rows and tell them things that make them like Jesus. (Our idea of discipleship is, perversely, patterned after bible college, trying to teach a curiculum to people, only without tests or papers.) I think the missing element is conspicuous: Jesus went around DOING stuff, and his disciples participated. More to the point, he went around doing works of love in the power of the spirit. After Jesus acscended, the disciples continued. At some point we all decided that the logical continuation of Christ's ministry is to sit around talking to each other for 2,000 years. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps the only thing that matters in ministry preparation is the same as the only thing that matters in following Jesus: "Faith working in love." (Gal 5:6)<BR/><BR/>The disciples once complained to Jesus that some other guys were going around healing and delivering in his name. Jesus rebuked them. It's interesting to note that the big miracle workers in the book of acts were the freelancers, Phillip and Paul, not the franchisees Peter and John.<BR/><BR/>The professionalization of ministry has been the downfall of the kingdom movement, over and over since the beginning. The cutting edge of ministry has always been the non-legitimate fringe: Phillip in Samaria, Paul in the Diaspora, St Patrick among the barbarians, St Francis in the cities of Europe and the frontiers of America, the Moravians, the Wesleys, the Booths, the house churches in China, the pentecostals on the other side of the tracks. <BR/><BR/>Yet we press to the front seeking legitimacy from the self-affirmed. Gross!Joe Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15385756442506439825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post-88659509483985614442008-12-18T05:27:00.000-06:002008-12-18T05:27:00.000-06:00Hey Fiber Guy. Are you who I think you are? And qu...Hey Fiber Guy. Are you who I think you are? And quoting Alan Hirsch?<BR/><BR/>Alan Hirsch rocks. And if anyone wants to read Rodney Stark's "Rise of Christianity" it is a real eye-opener. I have a copy just sitting here!Joe Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15385756442506439825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post-88411215878589618942008-12-14T08:41:00.000-06:002008-12-14T08:41:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.fiber_techhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09811603475854106273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4294512992029030179.post-51507343796614020902008-12-13T10:16:00.000-06:002008-12-13T10:16:00.000-06:00Fantastic article, although I'm not sure how to co...Fantastic article, although I'm not sure how to comment on it because I agree with it so much (obviously). We're preaching to the choir, here. :-) <BR/><BR/>Maybe the questions are these: How ELSE should we be training and teaching future ministry-folks in Bible colleges and seminary? And secondly, for those in "church planting," how else do you do it besides this:<BR/><BR/><I>"We started with a building and a core group of Christians. We invited, and planned, and organized, and put together Sunday events. We built more buildings and started more services to invite people to. We developed programs for young and old, men and women, married and divorced. We hired staff and we organized ministry teams."</I><BR/><BR/>What's the tangible alternative, other than just changing a mindset?scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06407035513346395310noreply@blogger.com